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AlicefromEssex

Queer Loki is not modern and not Marvel-inspired.

Updated: Aug 30, 2023

Common scenarios


Lokean 1: Loki has ginger hair, a magic fishing net, and loves to dress in a red suit.


Everyone nods


Lokean 2: He’s Lokis and I’m his wife


Everyone nods


Lokean 3: Loki like donuts. We can gift Loki store-brought cakes, screw the haters.


Everyone nods


Lokean 4: Loki is Queer. I had a really vivid experience with Loki that was Queer. I am a Queer spouse of Loki.


Record scratch and an unease fills the room


Lokean 1 with the human portrait of Loki: Whoa whoa whoa Loki cannot be Queer. This is too human a concept.


Lokean 2 wearing a wedding band to Loki and uses he/him pronouns for Loki: Spirits don't have such human concepts like gender or sexuality.


Lokean 3 a fan of spongecake day: eeeeew I think that's marvel inspired and too modern.


Okay okay okay. This is a strawman argument above but it's not too far off what I see happen in Lokean spaces when Queer Loki or a Queer Loki experience is brought up by any LGBTQA+ person. If someone makes a rainbow or trans flag with Loki or shares an article about the Queerness in Lokis myths. It is met with resistance that it's ‘too modern’ or ‘human’ or ‘marvel inspired’ than any modern offering or humanoid portrait of Loki. This can come from people who have done all of the above but they suddenly care deeply and switch tone when Queerness is the topic of focus. To note early on, there's nothing wrong with a modern practice being 'modern' either. The idea that older = better has its roots leaning into some dodgy ideology of 'purity' and fundamentalism.


Why it’s Queerphobia


“It's too human and not spiritual”

While we share what Loki's favorite food is to offer, their songs and messages, their hair colour, portraits, and pronouns for Loki as a human. Yet suddenly when sexual or gender identity is on the table for discussion people care about calling out ‘too humanoid’ spirits. Spiritual spaces will go to lengths to talk of sacred femininity and sacred masculinity, sacred marriages with the tone of cis heterosexuality, and yet when Queerness is brought up in the same way. Suddenly we're mocked for bringing human concepts to the gods. People will accept Loki is married to people or other spirits, but suddenly this concept is too human when we talk about Queer relationships. If you accept cis heterosexual image of Loki and cringe or recoil at the same image that's open to Queerness. You may need to dig deep into Queerphobia in you. This isn’t only done by those who are cishet. If you are Queer but not raised to be used to seeing yourself represented in history, in media or in the myths and spiritual spaces. You can easily also be shocked by hearing about Queer Loki as a god and Queer spirituality.


‘It's too modern or marvel inspired’


Is a dog whistle that most Queer people who have been around long enough can clock. What this is implying is Queerness never existed in the past. Implying we are 'not born with or natural' that they want to say we are ‘inspired by the media’. Any academic or armchair reading of Queerness in the gods or the past is deemed 'too modern'. It plays with much darker conspiracy theories where it claiming us Queer people never existed, 'we’re invented by modern conspiracy to destroy society' (often leading to 'cultural marxism' conspiracy theory that has anti-semitic roots) or that we’re 'mentally ill' and being “manipulated”. I have seen a few LGBTQA allies flirt with this one without thinking about what it implies to claim a Queer Loki experience is 'inspired from watching or reading marvel stuff' and not deeply part of that Queer Lokean and how Loki expresses their own Queerness with them. To once again point out not everything has to be ancient to be 'better'. While Queerness is ancient as life itself, the argument that anything labeled 'modern' is somehow not pure or 'inferior' or is bad should be resisted. It leads us to a very bad fundamentalist way of thinking.


‘Queerness didn't exist in the past or the ancient past’.


We need history and current-day paganism to accept we have always been here and a good chunk of their ancestors would've been Queer. While the word “queer” existed as different terms and queer history is a complicated story of existing, hiding, and surviving oppression at times. That doesn’t mean we cannot discover it in archaeology and in the sources. For example in the Sagas Loki is called words that academics have theorized have links to Queerness. While used as a slur we need to understand even modern terms like ‘gay’, ‘Queer’ etc have often also been used as slurs directed at those of us who either identify or show as the ‘Queer other’. That any current-day Queer person can relate to. These old terms Loki was called were Áss ragr (sá hefr börn borit) in reference or translated to ‘The Queer God who has born children. Loki was also called Rög vættr that's often translated as Queer being. I’ve seen people try to argue ‘This isn’t Queerness in being Queer but as a job.’ which is laughable especially if it has slur links or it keeps happening like a natural reaction with no resistance. When Heimdallr suggested Thor wears a wedding dress, Thor was outraged and yet Loki was already in a feather dress and was Thor's handmaiden without complaint. There are many historians now writing about Queer ancient history and challenging views that some burials in couple poses were 'just very good friends.


Why denying the existence of a Queer Loki can become Queerphobia


I am still shocked by how some inclusive groups take a ‘both sides’ approach to Queer Loki or Queer gods in general. To note historically fascism has always claimed to be 'better than both sides.' They claim to be safe spaces but Queer Lokeans find they are policed or called 'political' when talking about themselves and the gods with a Queer eye. Often you can get 'Why bring up Queerness when we are all the same' too. We discover there is an invisible line in the inclusion ‘you’re welcome here but keep your some of Queerness behind close doors’. Like Loki sew up your mouth. An unwritten ‘Don’t ask, Don’t Tell’ policy. That we’re only there to worship the gods and to leave our Queerness at the doors while the cishet members are not held to the same standards if they share cishet stories or thoughts about the gods. One is treated as ‘normal’ and the 'other' is to be managed and controlled as if can become ‘dangerous’ if spoken of too many times. That Queerness will somehow 'ruin' something or is 'weird or lesser'. They won't say it but it will be felt by their unease. The irony is that the far right claimed to be silenced when they and some blind 'allies' silence Queer voices more often.


For example, if someone tries to erase a Queer Lokean experience by challenging how ‘real’ it was or using words with implications of Queerphobia. Often the Queer person who is upset at being erased is the one who gets told off or threatened with bans more than the Queerphobe talking in a polite voice but in violent terms.


This isn’t to say there can be no discussion on Queer gods and spiritual experiences. However, it doesn’t take an empath to sense when an argument is set to ‘destroy all concepts of Queerness in Norse Heathenry and Lokeanism’. Rather than elevating the discussion on exploring how Queerness existed then and still now. Queer people have a very real evidenced history of being slurred, erased, killed, and forced into closets which are traumatizing. We have always been here even when forced to hide or be free. We can find our stories in history and within the spiritual. A Queer god does not erase the experiences of a heterosexual person. In the same way, Trans people can be in heterosexual relationships or bisexuality isn’t erased by a hetero-looking marriage. A Queer god is inclusive to all and saying a Queer person is mistaken and god can only ever be read as heterosexual only implies exclusion. I'm sure the above also intersects with other marginalized and oppressed groups as well who may also feel like they have to keep certain details that relate to them quiet so as not to upset the borderline white supremacists.


What to do next?


Queer or cishet readers you can go over and explore Queer Ancestors post I made. You can read the history. Re-read the old texts with Queerness in mind. Make sure the leaders of inclusive groups understand Queer issues and don't enforce a ‘don't ask don't tell’ style policy on Queer members. Survey or have open feedback with Queer members or other leaders on what could be done to help visibility.




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